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	<title> &#187; US Infrastructure</title>
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		<title> &#187; US Infrastructure</title>
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		<title>Civil Engineering &#8220;Dream Projects&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2011/10/04/civil-engineering-dream-projects/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2011/10/04/civil-engineering-dream-projects/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>aepcentral</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Career Development]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/?p=3912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By Carol A. Metzner President, The Metzner Group, LLC and Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC home of CivilEngineeringCentral.com   View Carol&#8217;s profile &#38; connect with her on LinkedIn An architect and several civil engineers  from Wiss, Janney, Elstner Associates are rappelling the Washington Monument, inspecting and recording damage from this year&#8217;s earthquake. In various interviews, several of [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=blog.civilengineeringcentral.com&amp;blog=2539080&amp;post=3912&amp;subd=civilengineeringcentral&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-3932" style="border:black 2px solid;" title="Carol.Headshot" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/carol-headshot.jpg?w=455" alt=""   /><br />
By Carol A. Metzner<br />
President, <a href="http://www.themetznergroup.com/">The Metzner Group, LLC </a>and<br />
Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC home of <a href="http://www.civilengineeringcentral.com/">CivilEngineeringCentral.com</a><br />
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/civilengineeringrecruiter"><img title="Linkedin Logo" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/linkedin-logo.gif?w=98&#038;h=23" alt="" width="98" height="23" /></a>  View Carol&#8217;s profile &amp; connect with her on LinkedIn</p>
<p>An architect and several civil engineers  from Wiss, Janney, Elstner Associates are rappelling the Washington Monument, inspecting and recording damage from this year&#8217;s earthquake. In various interviews, several of the engineers reported that scaling the monument was a career highlight. Several of the monument inspectors are in their late 20&#8242;s and 30&#8242;s. They are just in the early stages of what I suspect will be a long career. How will they top this project?</p>
<span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2011/10/04/civil-engineering-dream-projects/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/YTQitTElTHo/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span>
<p>Each year the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) selects finalists for the group&#8217;s annual Outstanding Civil Engineering Achievement (OCEA) award. Previous OCEA winners have included China&#8217;s Sutong Bridge, the World Trade Center, the Trans-Alaska Pipeline, Riverbank Filtration Tunnel and Pump Station(Louisville, KY)  and other high-profile projects, as well as a selection of lesser-known bridges, roadways and restored or relocated buildings. Engineers responsible for these award winning projects can proudly point to their accomplishments.</p>
<p>What are your &#8220;dream&#8221; civil engineering projects?</p>
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		<title>One World Trade Center</title>
		<link>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2011/09/19/one-world-trade-center/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2011/09/19/one-world-trade-center/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>aepcentral</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Civil Engineering]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/?p=3878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt Barcus President, Precision Executive Search, Inc Managing Partner, CivilEngineeringCentral.com View Matt&#8217;s profile &#38; connect with him on LinkedIn Two Sunday&#8217;s ago we honored the heroes and victims of 9/11 not only across the United States, but around the globe; they will never be forgotten. I just wanted to take a moment on our blog [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=blog.civilengineeringcentral.com&amp;blog=2539080&amp;post=3878&amp;subd=civilengineeringcentral&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/civilengineeringrocks"><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-3096" style="margin-left:1px;margin-right:1px;border:black 1px solid;" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/twitter-photo11.jpg?w=66&#038;h=97" alt="" width="66" height="97" /></a><br />
Matt Barcus<br />
President, <a href="http://precision-recruiters.com"><strong><span style="color:#808080;">Precision Executive Search</span></strong>, <strong><span style="color:#808080;">Inc</span></strong></a><br />
Managing Partner, <a href="http://www.civilengineeringcentral.com" target="_blank"><strong><span style="color:#808080;">CivilEngineeringCentral.com</span></strong><br />
<img title="Linkedin Logo" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/linkedin-logo.gif?w=98&#038;h=23" alt="" width="98" height="23" /></a> View Matt&#8217;s profile &amp; connect with him on <a class="zem_slink" title="LinkedIn" href="http://www.linkedin.com/" rel="homepage">LinkedIn</a></p>
<p>Two Sunday&#8217;s ago we honored the heroes and victims of 9/11 not only across the United States, but around the globe; they will never be forgotten.</p>
<p>I just wanted to take a moment on our blog today to recognize those thousands of engineers, architects, planners, surveyors, and construction workers from the AEC industry who are now rebuilding at ground zero. The beautiful memorial, &#8220;Reflecting Absence,&#8221; designed by architect <a class="zem_slink" title="Michael Arad" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Arad" rel="wikipedia">Michael Arad</a>, is simple yet powerful. Equally as amazing, yet still under construction is what will be known as One <a class="zem_slink" title="World Trade Center" href="http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.7116666667,-74.0125&amp;spn=0.01,0.01&amp;q=40.7116666667,-74.0125 (World%20Trade%20Center)&amp;t=h" rel="geolocation">World Trade Center</a>; take a look at some of these facts:</p>
<p>* Height &#8211; 1776 to the spire, 1356 to the roof &#8211; this will make it the tallest building in the United States<br />
* 3.2M Square Feet<br />
* Estimated Cost: $3.2B<br />
* Recognized as the most complex public works project in American History<br />
* Being built on top of a subway<br />
* Materials include steel girders that measure 60&#8242; tall and weigh 70 tons each; blast walls made with 18K/square foot concrete; blast resistant glass on the top 20 floors; and a framework of armored concrete core designed to prevent &#8220;cascading catastrophic failure&#8221; that we all witnessed on 9/11<br />
* 3500+ construction workers working around the clock</p>
<p>Take a look at this video of Matt Lauer touring One World Trade Center with Chris Ward, Executive Director of the Port Authority of New York/New Jersey:</p>
<span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2011/09/19/one-world-trade-center/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/dHIbPSPNXY0/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span>
<p>Though I am far from an engineer myself, I have always been amazed and fascinated by the work of engineers and architects. Imagine the collaboration, the patience, the imagination and creativity, and the amount of American spirit that is involved by these professionals working on this project. The complexities involved with this project from all perspectives &#8211; civil engineering, structural engineering, geotechnical engineering, MEP engineering, environmental, architecture, construction &#8211; is mind-blowing to me. Not to mention the politics and public input.</p>
<p>I guess what I am trying to say here is&#8230;WOW&#8230;and THANK YOU! I believe this is a project that absolutely needed to be done, despite the cost, and thank you to all of those who are a part of it. And to the most of you who are not a part of it, thank you for all that you do. Engineers typically are low profile and are not recognized for the amazing and critical work that they do on a daily basis&#8230;so thank you!</p>
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		<title>Traffic Fatalities Report &#8211; How Are Civil Engineers Saving Lives?</title>
		<link>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2011/04/06/traffic-fatalaties-report-how-are-civil-engineers-saving-lives/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2011/04/06/traffic-fatalaties-report-how-are-civil-engineers-saving-lives/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>aepcentral</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Civil Engineering]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[civil engineering blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Civil Engineering Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Highway Engineering]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/?p=3538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[   Matt Barcus President, Precision Executive Search, Inc Managing Partner, CivilEngineeringCentral.com View Matt&#8217;s profile &#38; connect with him on LinkedIn A report released on April 1st by the US Department of Transportation concluded that US traffic fatalities are its lowest level since 1949.  The basis for this decline, and some  noted in the report, are numerous: *  [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=blog.civilengineeringcentral.com&amp;blog=2539080&amp;post=3538&amp;subd=civilengineeringcentral&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/civilengineeringrocks"></a><br />
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/civilengineeringrocks"><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-3096" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/twitter-photo11.jpg?w=66&#038;h=97" alt="" width="66" height="97" /></a> Matt Barcus<br />
President, <a href="http://precision-recruiters.com"><strong><span style="color:#808080;">Precision Executive Search</span></strong>, <strong><span style="color:#808080;">Inc</span></strong></a><br />
Managing Partner, CivilEngineeringCentral.com<br />
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View Matt&#8217;s profile &amp; connect with him on LinkedIn</p>
<p><a title="Traffic Fatalities Report" href="http://http//www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811451.PDF" target="_blank">A report released on April 1st by the US Department of Transportation</a> concluded that US traffic fatalities are its lowest level since 1949. </p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><a href="http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811451.PDF"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-3551" title="Traffic Fatalaties for Blog" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/traffic-fatalaties-for-blog3.jpg?w=300&#038;h=235" alt="" width="300" height="235" /></a></p>
<p>The basis for this decline, and some  noted in the report, are numerous:</p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;"><em><strong><span style="color:#ff6600;">*  The Recession &#8211; People travel less during down a down economy </span></strong></em></p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;"><em><strong><span style="color:#ff6600;">*  Technology &#8211; Employers now allow employees to work from home more often as they can easily log into a secure server and be as equally productive at a lower cost to the employer</span></strong></em></p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;"><em><strong><span style="color:#ff6600;">* Vigilant Drunk Driving Enforcement - Recent  legislation makes the legal limit .08 in all states and those guilty of drunk driving are being held more accountable for their actions&#8230;and rightfully so!</span></strong></em></p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;"><em><strong><span style="color:#ff6600;">* Improved Vehicle Safety &#8211; Three-point seatbelts now required in all cars; airbags in many cars now envelop passengers; advanced design of the outer shell</span></strong></em></p>
<p>Tradition shows that traffic engineers, transportation planners, and highway engineers also play a major role in highway safety by:</p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;"><span style="color:#ff6600;">* </span><strong><span style="color:#ff6600;"><em>Designing improved barrier systems via 3D modeling</em></span></strong></p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;"><strong><span style="color:#ff6600;"><em>* Better controlling traffic at access points</em></span></strong></p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;"><strong><span style="color:#ff6600;"><em>* Better controlling traffic through construction zones</em></span></strong></p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;"><strong><span style="color:#ff6600;"><em>* Applying ITS programs to enhance highway safety</em></span></strong></p>
<p style="padding-left:30px;"><strong><span style="color:#ff6600;"><em>* Developing public transit alternatives (i.e. HSR) that appeal to the public</em></span></strong></p>
<p>For those of us who are not engineers, for those who are currently studying or looking to study civil engineering in college,  and for those engineers whose area of expertise falls outside of transportation, <span style="color:#ff6600;"><strong>what are some of the current and future innovations from a civil / transportation engineering perspective that have contributed to this decline and that will hopefully contribute to the future decline of this statistic?  </strong></span></p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><strong>This blog is receives over 5,000 visitors each month, most of which are civil engineering professionals.  Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this very topic and hopefully for generating some great discussion!</strong></p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><strong> </strong></p>
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		<title>Are You High On Speed&#8230;Rail?</title>
		<link>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2011/02/16/are-you-high-on-speed-rail/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 21:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[ Matt Barcus President, Precision Executive Search, Inc Managing Partner, CivilEngineeringCentral.com View Matt&#8217;s profile &#38; connect with him on LinkedIn It&#8217;s been quite some time since I have touched on this subject, so at the risk of &#8220;beating a dead horse,&#8221; here I go again! Have you ever known anyone who has traveled via high-speed rail?  [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=blog.civilengineeringcentral.com&amp;blog=2539080&amp;post=3397&amp;subd=civilengineeringcentral&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/civilengineeringrocks"></a><br />
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/civilengineeringrocks"><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-3096" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/twitter-photo11.jpg?w=66&#038;h=97" alt="" width="66" height="97" /></a> Matt Barcus<br />
President, <a href="http://precision-recruiters.com"><strong><span style="color:#808080;">Precision Executive Search</span></strong>, <strong><span style="color:#808080;">Inc</span></strong></a><br />
Managing Partner, CivilEngineeringCentral.com<br />
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<p>It&#8217;s been quite some time since I have touched on this subject, so at the risk of &#8220;beating a dead horse,&#8221; here I go again!</p>
<p>Have you ever known anyone who has traveled via high-speed rail?  Have you actually experienced High Speed Rail yourself?  At the very least you have recently read about it or heard about it on the news.  I have never personally experienced it myself, but I&#8217;ve read enough about it  and viewed enough videos to know that I am very excited about what the future holds.  I have also spoken to folks who have actually traveled on High Speed Rail and the reviews were glowing!</p>
<p>Imagine blowing up a balloon; you&#8217;ve populated the balloon with enough air that is appears to be at full capacity, but maybe you want it a little bit bigger, so you put two more breaths into it.  It&#8217;s good.  It hasn&#8217;t popped, so you put two more breaths in.  It&#8217;s now stretched pretty thin, but maybe the kids are chanting, &#8220;Bigger! Bigger! Bigger!&#8221;   You push your luck one more time and in the middle of your next breath&#8230;.<strong>POP! </strong> As I write, our highways and airspace are pretty much maxed out when it comes to capacity, and as our population grows and our economy inches its way back into growth mode the constraints will be even heavier.  In fact,  on Monday CNN reported the following from the FAA:</p>
<p style="padding-left:60px;">&#8220;<em><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/02/15/air.travel.forecast/index.html?hpt=T2" target="_blank">Air travel in the United States is expected to more than double in the next 20 years, according to the Federal Aviation Administration&#8217;s annual forecast released on Tuesday.</a></em></p>
<p style="padding-left:60px;"><em><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/02/15/air.travel.forecast/index.html?hpt=T2" target="_blank">It also predicts U.S. airlines will carry 1 billion passengers a year by 2021, a milestone that will come two years earlier than previously thought. (To put that number into perspective, about 712 million passengers flew on domestic carriers in 2010.)</a>&#8220;</em></p>
<p style="padding-left:180px;"> </p>
<p>If we fail to truly embrace High Speed Rail our infrastructure will share the same results as the balloon.</p>
<p>Last week Joe Biden announced a comprehensive plan that would allow for 80% of our hard-working population to have access to High Speed Rail by 2035 and has committed to $53 billion over six years.   Check out what the US High Speed Rail Association&#8217;s vision of what a national High Speed Rail system would look like:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ushsr.com/hsrnetwork.html"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3406" title="HSR Map" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/hsr-map1.gif?w=455" alt=""   /></a></p>
<p>The build out of High Speed Rail lines is a lengthy process; the environmental planning and reports, the public meetings, more reports, more meetings,  and one of the most, if not THE most sophisticated engineering and construction processes in the world requires much patience.  Of course the longer the discussion gets hung up in DC the even longer this will take.  As the United States continues to talk about High Speed Rail, the other countries on our globe continue to stay one step ahead of us.  I personally am not concerned about competing with other countries because at the end of the day I think the US rocks!    But all this talk over the years surrounding High Speed Rail, and the limited action is getting old &#8211; the advantages of High Speed Rail, as you and I both know, are enormous:</p>
<p>*Job creation</p>
<p>*Increased opportunities for employment due to easy access between cities</p>
<p>*A reduction in carbon emissions</p>
<p>*A national HSR system could reduce oil consumption by 125 bbl / year (according to Environment America)</p>
<p>*Reduce the stress already on existing, over-capacity infrastructure</p>
<p>*Ability to text message and check Facebook on phone without having to lookup for oncoming traffic <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Look, the list goes on and on as to the advantages, no doubt.  A couple of years ago I wondered if people would really be able to give up their connections to their cars  on a daily basis.  The convenience they provide; the status they may show, etc.  But I think with all the studies that have been compiled, and the horrible recession that we have recently passed through, that particular mentality has passed its prime.   The development of true High Speed Rail has begun in FL and CA and significant investments have already been made in those regions.  May the rest of our country follow in their footsteps&#8230;let&#8217;s get this show on the road, or  shall I say, on the rail!</p>
<p>So, are you high on speed&#8230;rail?  I know I am and I would love to hear your thoughts &#8211; especially from anyone who may be against this type of innovation in our country&#8230;</p>
<p>Thanks for reading!</p>
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		<title>Civil Engineering Concept  &#8211; The Road Straddling &#8220;Fast Bus&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2010/10/13/civil-engineering-concept-the-road-straddling-fast-bus/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[ Matt Barcus President, Precision Executive Search, Inc Managing Partner, CivilEngineeringCentral.com View Matt&#8217;s profile &#38; connect with him on LinkedIn I am a die-hard Philadelphia sports fan.  I&#8217;m a Phitin&#8217; Phillie Phan during baseball season, I bleed green during football season, and I bleed orange during hockey season (and if the Sixers could give me an inkling of hope&#8230;anywhere&#8230;I would bleed for them [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=blog.civilengineeringcentral.com&amp;blog=2539080&amp;post=3086&amp;subd=civilengineeringcentral&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/civilengineeringrocks"></a><br />
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/civilengineeringrocks"><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-3096" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/twitter-photo11.jpg?w=66&#038;h=97" alt="" width="66" height="97" /></a> Matt Barcus<br />
President, <a href="http://precision-recruiters.com"><strong><span style="color:#808080;">Precision Executive Search</span></strong>, <strong><span style="color:#808080;">Inc</span></strong></a><br />
Managing Partner, CivilEngineeringCentral.com<br />
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View Matt&#8217;s profile &amp; connect with him on LinkedIn</p>
<p>I am a die-hard Philadelphia sports fan.  I&#8217;m a Phitin&#8217; Phillie Phan during baseball season, I bleed green during football season, and I bleed orange during hockey season (and if the Sixers could give me an inkling of hope&#8230;anywhere&#8230;I would bleed for them as well!).  I am blessed with a wonderful wife who is pretty patient with me when it comes to watching the games on TV, especially the Phillies since every game is on TV &#8211; not that I watch every game, but I watch enough to admit that I may get in trouble in other homes.  In any event, a couple of times a year I score some tickets to head into Philly to watch a game or two. A few  weeks ago was one of those times.  Under normal circumstances, during non-rush hour times, I can make it down to the Philadelphia sports complex in about fifty minutes.  During rush hour I would give myself an hour-and-a-half just to be safe.  This would give me enough time to enjoy a few cold one&#8217;s at <a href="http://www.mcfaddensballpark.com/about.php">McFadden&#8217;s</a> before hand, or enjoy some crab fries from<a href="http://www.chickiesandpetes.com/"> Chickie &amp; Pete&#8217;s</a>.   Well, two weeks ago I left at 4PM for a 7:05PM game where Roy Halladay would be vying for his 20th win of the season&#8230;plenty of time to sip a few suds and grab a bite to eat before game time, right?  As it turns out, from 4PM &#8211; 6:30PM I had the following view:</p>
<p><a href="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/traffic-image1.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3103" title="Traffic Image" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/traffic-image1.jpg?w=455" alt=""   /></a></p>
<p>Now, at the end of the day, after parking and walking to my seats I was able to grab a beer and a kielbasa sandwich from<a href="http://www.phillymag.com/restaurants/detail/bulls_bbq"> Bull&#8217;s BBQ </a>in time to see Halladay&#8217;s first pitch on his way to his 20th victory of the season.  It was all good.</p>
<p>Where am I going with all of this and what could this possibly have to do with civil engineering?  Well, I would have much rather taken a 3D Fast Bus:</p>
<p>A DETAILED PRESENTATION (apx. 5 minutes):</p>
<span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2010/10/13/civil-engineering-concept-the-road-straddling-fast-bus/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/Hv8_W2PA0rQ/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span>
<p>90 SECOND VIDEO ONLY SIMULATION:</p>
<span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2010/10/13/civil-engineering-concept-the-road-straddling-fast-bus/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/FDadNUo4So4/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span>
<p>As U.S. cities continue to pursue funding and public support for light  and high-speed rail services, Civil, Rail, and Transit Engineers in China continue to develop advanced concepts that will help alleviate congestion on our roads and make travel a much more enjoyable, less stressful experience.  There is not a doubt in my mind that we will eventually get there ourselves, as not only do we have the some of the most creative and innovative engineers in the world, but we really do not have a whole lot of choice based upon the current state of our infrastructure and the needs of our society&#8230;<em><strong>I just wish a 3-D Bus was in place a couple of weeks ago!</strong></em></p>
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		<title>How to Prevent Infrastructure Disaster?</title>
		<link>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2010/06/23/how-to-prevent-infrastructure-disaster/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[By Carol A. Metzner President, The Metzner Group, LLC and Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC home of CivilEngineeringCentral.com This August will be the 3rd anniversary of the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis and the 5th anniversary of the New Orleans levee system failure. July brings with it the 19th year mark of the Kansas City Hyatt [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=blog.civilengineeringcentral.com&amp;blog=2539080&amp;post=2863&amp;subd=civilengineeringcentral&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By Carol A. Metzner<br />
President,<span style="text-decoration:underline;"> </span><a href="http://www.themetznergroup.com">The Metzner Group, LLC </a>and<br />
Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC home of <a href="http://www.civilengineeringcentral.com">CivilEngineeringCentral.com</a></p>
<p>This August will be the 3rd anniversary of the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis and the 5th anniversary of the New Orleans levee system failure. July brings with it the 19th year mark of the Kansas City Hyatt Regency walkway collapse. While we now understand how these events occurred, has the civil engineering industry implemented systems to help prevent future disasters? Has our government implemented systems to help?</p>
<p>Cutbacks in civil engineering staff across the US&#8217;s civil engineering companies and  low bid contract awards from local, state and federal agencies cause some to question whether projects are being completed by the best talent available. As we discussed in a previous blog, some firms that previously hired the best engineering talent have now cut them in favor of less experienced, less expensive engineers. What effect, if any will this have on our future infrastructure?</p>
<p>This week it was <a href="http://www.freep.com/article/20100620/NEWS06/6200430/1320/State-has-Dec.-31-deadline-to-report-on-bridges">reported</a> that the Michigan Department of Transportation has been late on inspections on bridge reports.  A state audit determined that about 10% of bridge inspections were overdue, some for 36 months or more. It was further reported that the Federal Highway Administration &#8220;ordered the state to complete hundreds of crucial bridge inspections by Dec. 31 or risk losing highway funding, a last-ditch punishment that MDOT says it will avoid.&#8221;</p>
<p>Similarly, Stamford, CT <a href="http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Hundreds-of-state-bridges-rated-deficient-526036.php">advocate news </a>just announced &#8220;Hundreds of state bridges rated deficient.&#8221; Specifically: of the state’s 5,300 bridges, 10 percent, or 509, are structurally deficient and ranked in poor condition, according to the state Department of Transportation. Fifty-four percent are in fair condition, while 36 percent are in good condition.</p>
<p>The Monitor reporter Jared Janes <a href="http://www.themonitor.com/news/work-40105-bids-lower.html">wrote </a>this week  that lower than expected bids from contractors eager for work will allow the U.S. section of the International Boundary and Water Commission, in charge of the construction, to complete more than 40 additional miles to raise and rehabilitate Rio Grande levees.</p>
<p>Our government has implemented guidelines for engineering designs and mandated structural inspections. Private industry and public agencies struggle with budget cuts. How can we prevent infrastructure disasters with  contract monies put on hold and experienced staff being caught in layoffs? What are your thoughts?</p>
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		<title>Storm Water Job Trends</title>
		<link>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2010/03/15/storm-water-job-trends/</link>
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		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 01:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[By Carol Metzner President, The Metzner Group, LLC and Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC home of CivilEngineeringCentral.com The ever-shrinking job market, aging baby boomers and rapid technology growth have created a need for storm water generalists who can do it all—use off-the-shelf and proprietary tools to conduct modeling studies; plan, assess and design storm water [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=blog.civilengineeringcentral.com&amp;blog=2539080&amp;post=2533&amp;subd=civilengineeringcentral&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By Carol Metzner<br />
President, <a href="http://themetznergroup.com"><span style="color:#808000;">The Metzner Group, LLC</span></a> and<br />
Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC home of <a href="http://civilengineeringcentral.com"><span style="color:#808000;">CivilEngineeringCentral.com</span></a></p>
<p>The ever-shrinking job market, aging baby boomers and rapid technology growth have created a need for storm water generalists who can do it all—use off-the-shelf and proprietary tools to conduct modeling studies; plan, assess and design storm water and water resource projects; resolve complex problems such as conflicting design requirements and unsuitability of conventional materials; and prepare and review a myriad of reports, including technical and regulatory specifications, contract documents and cost estimates.</p>
<p>No longer is storm water management a niche position filled by hydraulic and hydrologic specialists; now it encompasses everything from business development to contract bidding and administration to project management.</p>
<p>Furthermore, storm water-related jobs are not limited to civil engineering and construction companies; they now are found in federal, state and local governments, scientific consulting and services firms, research and development companies and waste management organizations.</p>
<p>At the same time, rising population growth, crumbling infrastructure, growing concern for the environment and a need to comply with tighter environmental laws and regulations have created increasing demand for environmental engineers knowledgeable of storm water management. Many developers today are taking a proactive approach by working to prevent rather than control problems, requiring engineers who can use science and engineering principles to ensure the preservation of natural resources, the use of environmentally beneficial materials and the health and safety of residents. Environmental engineers also design remediation systems to counter the effects of pollutants on soil and groundwater and retrofit existing storm water systems to mimic predevelopment hydrology and restore ecosystems to their predevelopment state.</p>
<p><strong>Storm Water Staff as Generalists</strong></p>
<p>With unemployment on the rise, it is no surprise that some career boards report a 50% decline in the number of storm water-related jobs over the past two years. Fewer jobs usually means that the people who do have jobs have more to do, and that seems to be the case here. More storm water-related employees are expected to come to the job not only with knowledge of the general engineering field, hydrology, hydraulics and water quality, but also knowledge of best management practice design and local, state and federal water programs’ regulations as well as experience in site design, work plan development, data collection and analysis and preparation of technical memoranda, reports and presentations.</p>
<p>To get a job in today’s tight market, storm water-related workers must possess technical knowledge dealing with a range of topics, including soils, pollutants, watershed management, storm water/drainage management, water rights, water quality modeling, environmental permitting and economic analysis. In addition to these hard skills, engineers are expected to be fluent in softer interpersonal skills involving organization, management, communication and problem solving. Successful employees also need to be self-motivated, with the ability to work both on one’s own and within a large team environment.</p>
<p>Higher-level jobs require knowledge of and experience with more advanced topics such as conducting hydraulic, hydrologic and water quality modeling studies, using specialized computer software for data analysis, developing GIS applications and developing and updating computer code to create new analysis tools. Advanced workers also provide senior leadership for engineers involved in storm water-related projects and may prepare proposals and conduct other marketing activities to gain new business.</p>
<p><strong>Storm Water Staff as Environmentalists</strong></p>
<p>Engineers have a long history of working to minimize the environmental impacts of land development and to maintain or improve our nation’s environmental health. Many storm water-related workers are tasked with protecting our natural habitats, systems and resources by finding ways to maintain existing hydrologic patterns, reduce impervious surfaces, maximize undisturbed natural areas, minimize runoff and pollutants and take advantage of the natural retention, absorption and infiltration capabilities of vegetation and soils. Increasingly, environmental engineers are required to provide “green” and sustainable site management technologies and practices, making sure to integrate sustainability into every aspect of the development project.</p>
<p>In 1972, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) enacted the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System storm water permit program to regulate sources, such as developments, that discharge pollutants into U.S. waters and waterways. In 2007, the EPA introduced the Green Infrastructure initiative to highlight opportunities for municipalities to increase the development and use of green infrastructure to infiltrate, evapotranspirate or reuse storm water.</p>
<p>Legislation is changing at a fast pace, and environmental engineers have to keep up with the latest rules, regulations and enforcement procedures at all government levels. Increasing numbers of localities are adopting low-impact development ordinances as treatment control for pollutants and pursuing the U.S. Green Building Council Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design certification. To comply with these environmental regulatory requirements, engineers must be familiar with the specifics of the ordinances and engineering standards related to storm water management in addition to keeping accurate, clear and concise records.</p>
<p>To complete a land development project successfully, environmental engineers have to examine the project in its entirety, considering each design decision in terms of costs and benefits not only to the company and client but also to the environment and balancing the costs of different types of green materials with the benefits of long-term storm water management.</p>
<p><strong>Keeping Employed/Staffed<br />
</strong><br />
As this article has shown, storm water management trends, technologies and legislation are ever-changing. In order to maintain a job in this field, it is more important than ever for storm water-related workers to take advantage of every continuing education opportunity that comes their way.</p>
<p>To be successful, storm water-related engineers need a strong understanding of the water/storm water industry and new design standards and technologies. They also need experience in water resources, drainage, flood control and green infrastructure technologies. These individuals must read technical journals, attend professional conferences and interact with colleagues in order to keep up to date on the latest materials, standards and technologies and offer the greatest value to their employers. Even experienced storm water-related engineers need to keep abreast of the latest topics and often can benefit from a refresher course on the basics.</p>
<p>In the same way, if companies want to keep their employees, they must provide not only competitive salaries and benefits but also opportunities for continuing education and enhancement. In today’s work environment, learning new things can be a win-win situation for both employers and employees.</p>
<div><em>This article was written for Storm Water Solutions publications.  Please visit their site: </em><a href="http://www.estormwater.com/Storm-Water-Job-Trends-article11464"><em>http://www.estormwater.com/Storm-Water-Job-Trends-article11464</em></a></div>
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		<title>The National Infrastructure Bank</title>
		<link>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2010/02/09/the-national-infrastructure-bank/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2010/02/09/the-national-infrastructure-bank/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>aepcentral</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/?p=2473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By Carol A. Metzner President, The Metzner Group, LLC and Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC home of CivilEngineeringCentral.com Press releases reported last month that a &#8220;broad coalition of members of Congress, experts and stakeholders called on Congress and the Obama Administration to create a National Infrastructure Bank (NIB) to help generate the investment needed for [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=blog.civilengineeringcentral.com&amp;blog=2539080&amp;post=2473&amp;subd=civilengineeringcentral&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div id="_mcePaste">By Carol A. Metzner</div>
<div id="_mcePaste">President, <a href="http://www.themetznergroup.com">The Metzner Group, LLC</a> and</div>
<div id="_mcePaste">
<p>Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC home of <a href="http://www.civilengineeringcentral.com">CivilEngineeringCentral.com</a></p>
</div>
<div id="_mcePaste">Press releases reported last month that a &#8220;broad coalition of members of Congress, experts and stakeholders called on Congress and the Obama Administration to create a National Infrastructure Bank (NIB) to help generate the investment needed for infrastructure projects of regional and national importance.&#8221; Similar to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), the NIB would be set up  as an independent entity with a board of directors appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Specifically, the NIB would leverage private dollars to invest in and help improve the nation&#8217;s infrastructure, internet, smart grid, broadband, and schools. &#8220;The amount of federal investment would be determined on a sliding scale based on the type of infrastructure, location, project cost, current and projected usage, non-federal revenue, promotion of economic growth and community development, reduction in congestion, environmental benefits, and land-use policies that promote smart growth.&#8221; ACEC, ASCE, AWWA, ARBTA and a multitude of other organizations and political entities endorse this important legislation.</div>
<p>Leaders of &#8220;<a href="http://bafuture.org/">Building America&#8217;s Future</a>&#8221;  in their letter to President Obama commended him for his efforts and wrote in part:</p>
<p><em>&#8220;We write to ask for your continued leadership on the creation of a National Infrastructure Bank, which will help rebuild our nation’s crumbling infrastructure, including our transportation, water and wastewater, broadband, power grid and other critical assets. As you know, the American Society of Civil Engineers identified more than $2.2 trillion in outstanding infrastructure needs. We cannot improve our infrastructure through the annual appropriations process alone.</em></p>
<p><em>We must renew our commitment to a National Infrastructure Bank that can help leverage public and private dollars, address regional and national needs and spur a rebirth in how our country invests in infrastructure. Building America’s Future, along with many other organizations, has educated the public about the outstanding needs throughout our country. Cities and states are struggling to find enough resources on their own.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Critics are pontificating on the reasons why this will not work. One of their concern centers on the shortfall of the initial investment.  Their thought is that we can&#8217;t find enough money to fully fund a trillion dollar need, so why fund with a &#8220;paltry&#8221; $60 billion?  Secondly, critics are hung up on the term &#8220;bank.&#8221; Banks need to lend money and generate revenue, and therefore make investments that repay themselves. Since all infrastructure projects will not return large financial investment, then critics want the bank funding investment portfolio modified. Finally, the critics regard any federal organization as ineffective.</p>
<p>We cannot afford another eight years of inactivity and political battles.</p>
<p>These infrastructure repairs are desperately needed. This is our industry&#8217;s future and we support this initiative.</p>
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		<title>Sky City: City in the Sky or Pie in the Sky?</title>
		<link>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2009/10/14/sky-city-city-in-the-sky-or-pie-in-the-sky/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[By Matt Barcus President, Precision Executive Search, Inc. Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC, home of CivilEngineeringCentral.com So. Tired of dealing with traffic congestion, long commutes, urban sprawl and air pollution? Interested in Sustainability? Interested in Urban Redevelopment? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then you need to check out Tokyo&#8217;s Sky City. [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=blog.civilengineeringcentral.com&amp;blog=2539080&amp;post=1698&amp;subd=civilengineeringcentral&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By Matt Barcus<br />
President, <a title="Precision Executive Search - Civil Engineering Specialists" href="http://www.precision-recruiters.com/">Precision Executive Search, Inc.</a><a href="http://www.precision-recruiters.com/"><br />
</a>Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC, home of <a href="http://www.civilengineeringcentral.com/">CivilEngineeringCentral.com</a></p>
<p>So.  Tired of dealing with traffic congestion, long commutes, urban sprawl and air pollution?  Interested in Sustainability?  Interested in Urban Redevelopment?  If you answered yes to any of these questions, then you need to check out <a title="Sky City" href="http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/engineering/skycity/interactive/interactive.html">Tokyo&#8217;s Sky City. </a></p>
<p>Tokyo, Japan&#8217;s Sky City is in essence, a true city within a city.  In the planning stages for many years now, the Sky City project is geared towards freeing up congestion and providing some &#8220;oh-so needed&#8221; green space in downtown Tokyo. The largest metropolitan region in the world with over 35M people (according to <a title="Tokyo Population" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan">Wikipedia</a>), Tokyo  is jam packed to say the least and the urban sprawl is <em><strong>ri-dic-u-lous</strong></em>.</p>
<div id="attachment_2106" class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 280px"><img class="size-medium wp-image-2106" style="border:2px solid black;margin:2px;" title="Tokyo" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/tokyo.jpg?w=270&#038;h=179" alt="Aerial Photo of Tokyo, Japan" width="270" height="179" /><p class="wp-caption-text">Aerial Photo of Tokyo, Japan</p></div>
<p>The average commute is two hours,  many streets and roads are inaccessible and unnavigable for many emergency vehicles, and the civil engineering infrastructure is over capacity.   Many Japanese citizens believe the answer to these problems is to build vertically, like Sky City.    Sky City would reach two-thirds of a mile straight up into the sky and would accommodate 35,000 residents and 100,000 workers with apartments, offices, commercial facilities, movie theaters, a stadium, schools, hospitals, a monorail, etc. The reality is that one could live, work and play in Sky City without ever having to leave&#8230;ever.</p>
<p>Check out the first segment of video as seen on The Discovery Channel&#8217;s &#8220;Extreme Engineering&#8221;:</p>
<span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2009/10/14/sky-city-city-in-the-sky-or-pie-in-the-sky/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/3-bBuBT1oYU/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span>
<p><a title="Tokyo Sky City Segments 2-5" href="http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Sky+City+Extreme+ENgineering&amp;search_type=&amp;aq=f">The remaining four segments you can find on YouTube</a> as they get much deeper into all the cool research and engineering that is required to accomplish such a feat.</p>
<p>Segment 2:  <a title="Sky City Video Segment 2" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vOtSFWqnp8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vOtSFWqnp8</a></p>
<p>Segment 3:  <a title="Sky City Video Segment 3" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vOtSFWqnp8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODgvqtiRLng</a></p>
<p>Segment 4:  <a title="Sky City Video Segment 4" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdykY41VEvk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdykY41VEvk</a></p>
<p>Segment 5:  <a title="Sky City Video Segment 5" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arM_TBadGd8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arM_TBadGd8</a></p>
<p>What an amazing concept; key word here being &#8220;concept.&#8221;  Do you believe this concept will become reality?  Can these types of vertical cities really be as structurally sound as they need to be?  Would you live in a place like this?  If this works in Tokyo could we one day see this &#8220;metropolis of the future&#8221;  in New York City?</p>
<p>If this is really what the future holds, and if these types of projects will one day become common place as our population continues to soar,  then how can one NOT be excited about a career in civil engineering?</p>
<p>What&#8217;s your take on Sky City?</p>
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		<title>High Speed Rail Can&#8217;t Get Here Fast Enough</title>
		<link>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2009/09/23/high-speed-rail-cant-get-here-fast-enough/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.civilengineeringcentral.com/2009/09/23/high-speed-rail-cant-get-here-fast-enough/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>aepcentral</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Civil Engineering]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[civil engineering blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Civil Engineering Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[High Speed Rail]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Transit]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[US Infrastructure]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[By Matt Barcus President, Precision Executive Search, Inc. Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC, home of CivilEngineeringCentral.com The Obama Administration recently laid out their plan for investment in a national network of High Speed Rail lines across the United States.   This investment includes $8B to be generated from the $787B stimulus plan along with a proposed $5B coming [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=blog.civilengineeringcentral.com&amp;blog=2539080&amp;post=2019&amp;subd=civilengineeringcentral&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By Matt Barcus<br />
President, <a title="Precision Executive Search - Civil Engineering Specialists" href="http://www.precision-recruiters.com/">Precision Executive Search, Inc.</a><a href="http://www.precision-recruiters.com/"><br />
</a>Managing Partner, A/E/P Central, LLC, home of <a href="http://www.civilengineeringcentral.com/">CivilEngineeringCentral.com</a></p>
<p>The Obama Administration recently laid out their plan for <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/16/obama.rail/">investment in a national network of High Speed Rail lines across the United States</a>.   This investment includes $8B to be generated from the $787B stimulus plan along with a proposed $5B coming from his proposed 2010 fiscal budget.  On the grand scheme of things this is a drop in the bucket, and seemingly light years away from China&#8217;s initiative, but I guess you need to start somewhere, right?</p>
<p style="text-align:center;">
<p>According to a recent article in the<a href="http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-09/10/content_8676632.htm"> China Daily</a>, China is &#8220;poised to become the world&#8217;s High Speed Rail leader.&#8221;  They are set to build 42 new high speed lines spanning a total of 13,000 km over the next three years.   And while our current administration is contemplating how to spend $13B in high speed rail, China is investing $300B in their high speed rail initiative by the year 2020. If a country as smart and as talented as China is blazing this trail, shouldn&#8217;t we be more aggressively following their lead?</p>
<p><a href="http://media.npr.org/documents/2009/feb/hsr_corridors.pdf"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-2033" title="HSR Corridors" src="http://civilengineeringcentral.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/hsr-corridors.jpg?w=455" alt="HSR Corridors" /></a></p>
<p>The way I see it, the positive impacts of building out High Speed Rail lines are good &amp; plenty, here are just a few:</p>
<ul>
<li><a title="Forbes' Top 10 Worst Cities For Commuters" href="http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/24/cities-commute-fuel-forbeslife-cx_mw_0424realestate.html">**A reduction in highway traffic </a></li>
<li>**A decreased dependency on oil</li>
<li>**Minimized pollution</li>
<li>**Increased employment options for commuters who would not normally drive to certain locations</li>
<li>**Newly created jobs for planning, design and construction professionals, among MANY others</li>
<li>**A reduction of air traffic</li>
<li>**Increased property value for those outlying areas that would otherwise have limited options in getting to &#8220;the city.&#8221;</li>
</ul>
<p>And these are just a few.  I recently listened to a debate on the High Speed Rail topic  between <a title="Richard Harnish Bio" href="http://transportation.northwestern.edu/docs/2009/2009.10.01RichHarnishBio.pdf">Richard Harnish, Executive Director-Midwest High Speed Rail Association </a>and <a title="Randall O'Toole Bio" href="http://www.cato.org/people/randal-otoole">Randall O&#8217;Toole, Sr. Fellow with the CATO Institute.</a> Grab a cup of coffee and a cinnamon bun&#8230;or two&#8230;and take a listen:</p>
<p><a title="Saddle up and listen to the debate" href="http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/09/03/midmorning1/">http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/09/03/midmorning1/</a></p>
<p>The information available on this topic is endless.   I believe High Speed Rail to be a great and necessary alternative, but like everything else, it boils down to money and acceptance.  The proposed $13B investment is a nice start, but where will we get the funds to finish?  And once these High Speed Rail lines are up and running, will there be enough funds from rider revenue, taxes, and government subsidies to keep up with the cost of operations and maintenance?</p>
<p>I believe that one day High Speed Rail will be a mainstay in our country, it&#8217;s just a matter of when.  What do you think?</p>
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